In response to Nicole - full post found here
I rather like this post. For a while now, and this has been reinforces since coming to college, I've thought that so long as people think about things well enough and for a long enough time, they should come to similar conclusions about the nature of reality, morality, and so on. Many of the philosophers (students or teachers) that I have come to know are vegetarians/vegans (or on their way there), are agnostics (or at least open minded theists or atheists), have a similarly developed sense of morality (and have the ability to apply one concept to other different situations), believe that the universe is most likely determined, and don't agree that capitalism and nationalism are the best philosophies out there. These sorts of connections are available to people if they are willing to see them.
21 March 2012
19 March 2012
Asking for Pronoun Clarification, When To
Second part of my response to Krystal's post found here
As a final note, I do not agree with the advice of your B-GLAD house-mates. I think that asking a person their pronoun should not be a last resort, it should not be what you do after everything else has failed. Asking the pronoun is the best way to ever prevent failure. Additionally, failure can create a huge amount embarrassed depending on the context. If, for instance, you could not identify Sam by their appearance or mannerisms, It would be best to ask. If you asked Sam and they told you that they use masculine pronouns, you can proceed to refer to him with masculine pronouns which dispels the uncertainty of those around you. If you use 'they' without asking when you have the opportunity to, it perpetuates the confusion and may cause others to identify Sam with feminine pronouns, causing embarrassment for all.
Asking for pronouns should, I think, be your first choice. If you are having a difficult time identifying an individuals gender, chances are that other people have had the same problem and have already asked that person, so they will be used to it. If they are offended when you use ask they are being slightly unreasonable, because you very well could have identified them as the wrong gender and thereby caused others to do the same. People who ask are simply trying to do the right thing, which is to say, identifying people by their correct gender.
As a final note, I do not agree with the advice of your B-GLAD house-mates. I think that asking a person their pronoun should not be a last resort, it should not be what you do after everything else has failed. Asking the pronoun is the best way to ever prevent failure. Additionally, failure can create a huge amount embarrassed depending on the context. If, for instance, you could not identify Sam by their appearance or mannerisms, It would be best to ask. If you asked Sam and they told you that they use masculine pronouns, you can proceed to refer to him with masculine pronouns which dispels the uncertainty of those around you. If you use 'they' without asking when you have the opportunity to, it perpetuates the confusion and may cause others to identify Sam with feminine pronouns, causing embarrassment for all.
Asking for pronouns should, I think, be your first choice. If you are having a difficult time identifying an individuals gender, chances are that other people have had the same problem and have already asked that person, so they will be used to it. If they are offended when you use ask they are being slightly unreasonable, because you very well could have identified them as the wrong gender and thereby caused others to do the same. People who ask are simply trying to do the right thing, which is to say, identifying people by their correct gender.
Fluid Grammar Rules
First part of my response to Krystal's post found here
Thou there is nothing wrong with taking 'proper grammar' seriously, I think that it is important to recognize that grammar is entirely of our own construct and thereby fluid. Grammar can change, refudiate, for instance, is now a word, thanks to the lovely Sarah Palin.
Some great writers of the past have used the singular they. Shakespeare used singular they; There's not a man I meet but doth salute me / As if I were their well-acquainted friend (Comedy of Errors, Act IV, Scene 3) or "Arise; one knocks. / ... / Hark, how they knock!" (Romeo and Juliet, Act III, Scene 3).
After looking into it, which involved reading over some LGBT pages in French and Spanish, I have found that many people still prefer the gendered they (ils or ellos) over the singular he or she. Though, not all of them find that agreeable. In Spanish text recently, there has been an upsurge of the use of at-signs as in ell@s, or æ as in ellæs. Most HTML editors allow you to use the < / small> tag to make it reasonably sized compared to the rest of the text. There are still problems and it would be best for those languages, I think, to create a new pronoun.
Thou there is nothing wrong with taking 'proper grammar' seriously, I think that it is important to recognize that grammar is entirely of our own construct and thereby fluid. Grammar can change, refudiate, for instance, is now a word, thanks to the lovely Sarah Palin.
Some great writers of the past have used the singular they. Shakespeare used singular they; There's not a man I meet but doth salute me / As if I were their well-acquainted friend (Comedy of Errors, Act IV, Scene 3) or "Arise; one knocks. / ... / Hark, how they knock!" (Romeo and Juliet, Act III, Scene 3).
After looking into it, which involved reading over some LGBT pages in French and Spanish, I have found that many people still prefer the gendered they (ils or ellos) over the singular he or she. Though, not all of them find that agreeable. In Spanish text recently, there has been an upsurge of the use of at-signs as in ell@s, or æ as in ellæs. Most HTML editors allow you to use the < / small> tag to make it reasonably sized compared to the rest of the text. There are still problems and it would be best for those languages, I think, to create a new pronoun.
More on Them
In response to Nicole's response to me - my post is here and her's is here
Interestingly, the use of they does not have to cause grammatical confusion. For example, in your own post here, you used 'them' and 'their' in reference to 'another human being.' When people suspect that they will be receiving a phone call they often say to others "if anyone calls, tell them I will be back at 16:00." It's easy in that example and in your post to determine whom is being referred to. Additionally it is possible to create grammatical confusion even with the singular pronouns of he and she. A simple example of this can be seen here: "Bob and Joe went to the beach; he enjoyed the weather."
As I mentioned in my post, we could very easily use they at the cost of having to be more specific writers. For example "Bob went to the beach; they enjoyed themselves." It's fairly obvious to determine whom 'they' is referring. You could add "they invited their friends, Joe and Dave. Their friends also enjoyed themselves." Again, there is no confusion that 1) could not be fixed with clarification or 2) could not exist with singular pronouns.
The fact that 'they' is a plural pronoun now does not mean that it has to be. Remember that how things are is not necessarily how things ought to be. In a previous post you mentioned that we should not change things if there is no evidence to suggest we should. The supplement is that we should change things if there is evidence that we should. There is evidence in this scenario that a change is necessary, and 'they,' it seems, is an acceptable alternative, though coming up with a new singular all encompassing pronoun would be sufficient.
Bigendered and pangendered people could very well be grouped in with people with disassociative identity disorder. Essentially they fall into multiple different categories that we use to identify people. When you see a 'he' and a 'she' together, you refer to them using the plural they. If multiple genders manifest in one person I see little problem with using the singular they. If you are uncertain about a person's gender, foremost it is best to ask as soon as you can, you can refer to them as 'they' because it's as effective, if not more effective(because it is all encompassing), than s/he and it stands no risk of incorrectly labelling the person, which is embarrassing for all.
I also want to add that s/he is not a plausible solution. How exactly are we supposed to read that? Additionally, the term that would be created would be much longer and thus filled with more unpronounceable forward slashes than should be necessary to identify a single person.
Interestingly, the use of they does not have to cause grammatical confusion. For example, in your own post here, you used 'them' and 'their' in reference to 'another human being.' When people suspect that they will be receiving a phone call they often say to others "if anyone calls, tell them I will be back at 16:00." It's easy in that example and in your post to determine whom is being referred to. Additionally it is possible to create grammatical confusion even with the singular pronouns of he and she. A simple example of this can be seen here: "Bob and Joe went to the beach; he enjoyed the weather."
As I mentioned in my post, we could very easily use they at the cost of having to be more specific writers. For example "Bob went to the beach; they enjoyed themselves." It's fairly obvious to determine whom 'they' is referring. You could add "they invited their friends, Joe and Dave. Their friends also enjoyed themselves." Again, there is no confusion that 1) could not be fixed with clarification or 2) could not exist with singular pronouns.
The fact that 'they' is a plural pronoun now does not mean that it has to be. Remember that how things are is not necessarily how things ought to be. In a previous post you mentioned that we should not change things if there is no evidence to suggest we should. The supplement is that we should change things if there is evidence that we should. There is evidence in this scenario that a change is necessary, and 'they,' it seems, is an acceptable alternative, though coming up with a new singular all encompassing pronoun would be sufficient.
Bigendered and pangendered people could very well be grouped in with people with disassociative identity disorder. Essentially they fall into multiple different categories that we use to identify people. When you see a 'he' and a 'she' together, you refer to them using the plural they. If multiple genders manifest in one person I see little problem with using the singular they. If you are uncertain about a person's gender, foremost it is best to ask as soon as you can, you can refer to them as 'they' because it's as effective, if not more effective(because it is all encompassing), than s/he and it stands no risk of incorrectly labelling the person, which is embarrassing for all.
I also want to add that s/he is not a plausible solution. How exactly are we supposed to read that? Additionally, the term that would be created would be much longer and thus filled with more unpronounceable forward slashes than should be necessary to identify a single person.
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